God's Blessings and Human Sexuality

I want to know, can a believer be in an intimate relationship with someone of the opposite sex and still be in the will of God if they aren't married through a traditional marriage ceremony? And if not, will God still bless and protect them? And what if the person they are intimate with isn't necessarily a professed believer or if they are on the verge of having faith?... And is sex an inacted covenant in of itself apart from the traditional ceremony most cultures have implemented today to be a marriage ceremony? (Abraham and Sarah and most of the forefathers had sex and they were considered married after intercourse.) And is any kind of sex outside of marriage fornication? (In all instances addressed in scripture around the topic of fornication there seems to be descriptive context provided to give the word definition such as prostituation, sex as idol worship, adultery, sodomy, beastiality, incest, etc..., yet a man and a woman who love each other along with the prospect of a life long commitment doesn't seem to be indicative of fornication if they, in fact, have intercourse. I can provide verses if necessary.)

Satan himself created this problem for all of us in the Garden. He almost literally changed our heaven into his hell. In order to understand the full glory of what the Bible calls marriage, we have to learn to look past our own experience to what God has prepared for Himself.

The thick book we call the Word of God does more than tell us how to live our mundane lives, it is in its simplicity the best analogy of how much God loves us, and what he planned for all eternity. We don’t want answers. What we really want is security. May the Lord grant you that security, through the love of his Son, Jesus Christ.

1rst Corinthians 10:11 “ Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.”

The “them” named here are our forefathers, from the very first progenitor. The “all these things” is just everything. Admonition means a warning. That end of the world part is why we are studying Revelation.

The first and best reason for marriage isn’t to satisfy God. In whatever fashion when you make a vow before the Father he will see you keep it. It’s to raise Godly children and/or be examples of loving relationships. All right all you single parents, I know! Your ex is a louse or worse. Children need to learn how to interact with each other. They need to see at least one of their parents in a healthy relationship. That or watch lots of Brady Bunch. (kidding) Who is the person that keeps saying the Bible is against righteous divorce? They should be slapped. You mean to tell me he would forgive murder, as he has with King David, but not divorce? The blood of the Lamb has power to cleanse every sin but divorce. No! We must not tie down the redeeming hands of the savior just because we don’t understand his mercy.You ask sincerely for forgiveness in the name of Christ then all iniquity is gone, as far as the east is to the west.

1 Corinthians 7:9 “But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.”

Romeo and Juliet may have had a romance that has spanned the centuries, but God’s love created the eons. Compared to the great marriage supper of the Lamb, (which we will be studying in Revelation) our unions are piffle. I am not saying you two don’t share a deep and definite love, of course you do! Why else would you be so troubled? All I am saying is we place too much importance on ourselves. This is all going to disappear one day and become the most beautiful sonnet of love that will ever be.

Luke 20:34-35 “And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:”35 “But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:”

Will your husband be there? Yes, he will. Will he be your husband anymore? No, he won’t. He will become again what he always was. Not your husband, not this mothers son, but a child of the living God. You will not only still love him, you will love him with ability past our understanding. What we call marriage is much different than what marriage means to God.

1 Timothy 5:14 “I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.”

The institution of marriage was created for mankind. If you love this girl and want to spend your time making her happy, then commit to her. Don’t marry because you think it’s wrong not to. Don’t marry because someone told you to, or out of guilt, or desperation. Marry because you can’t stand being apart. Marry because your passion is so strong you can’t keep your hands off each other. Marry so no one can bring accusation against you or your church. Most of all, if you have children, marry to raise them as Godly warriors, that they might marry and raise little warriors of their own.

This is a very fascinating discussion. Personally, I have come to understand that it is true, God DOES work ALL things for good for those who love Him, to those who are called according to His purposes. I also know that there is nothing withheld from His sight, but all things are laid bare before Him with whom we have to do. It has also been mentioned that we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who is at work with in us, to will and to do according to His good pleasure. To add, it is written that NOTHING shall separate us (those whom God foreknew, predestinated, called, justified, and glorified~Romans 8~) from the love of God who is in Christ Jesus.

I often wonder that if God has forgiven us our iniquities and if God no longer remembers (putting this information out of His mind) our sins, then can any of His blessings be contingent upon a condition? Keeping in mind of course that those who have come to faith in Christ are made after the likeness and image of Christ (in the spirit man, the essential part of us all) and we have been crucified with Christ and it is no longer we that live, but Christ is living through us and for this reason we are new creatures wherein the old things (the sinful unredeemed part of us) has past away, and only the new things (things pleasing to God) remain in us.

If God spared not His own Son (Christ), but delivered Him up for us all, how will He not, with Him, freely give us ALL things? What is this that Paul means when he says ALL things? Possibly that if God gave us heavens best, then anything else is nickels and dimes compared to the wonderous glory and unfathomable riches bestowed upon us who have come to faith in Him through Christ?...

Well, i must say that i am very impressed. When i read posts that are that well thought out and really that centered on GOD's Word and on HIS glory, it makes me smile. Too many times i hear people trying to determine truth based on their 'feelings' or whatever is popular in the culture.
So i add my humble response. I think first, it is important to get back to the centerpiece of all discussions, and i think it's been pointed out some in the other posts: the gospel and the glory of GOD. Cure asked two key questions (with some subquestions.) One has to do with sex and marriage, and the other is 'what happens if people are not follow GOD's plan?' Let's answer the second question first because i believe it to be the most important.
The question i would ask in response is 'why does GOD ever bless anyone?' I hear so many people say things to imply that GOD's blessings come to us because of our obedience, but that is not the case. I do agree that obedience can produce fruit that leads to positive things, but blessings come to us because we are 'in CHRIST.' That is the key. If we have put our faith in CHRIST, then we are HIS children. He blesses us because of that reason. We receive the righteousness of CHRIST, and all the blessings that come with being blameless children of GOD. Do we still sin? Surely, but GOD sees us sinless because of CHRIST. We are blessed because of HIM. There are times of discipline when we violate the revealed will of GOD, but many would say that those are blessings as well (because GOD disciplines those whom HE loves.)
Now understanding that we are blessed because of CHRIST, we should then be motivated to love HIM in return and to do all that we can to bring HIM great glory, so we move to the other question. My first thought regarding that is why would someone who truly loves GOD and has a desire to see HIM glorified even want to not pursue marriage if they are interested in a committed, intimate relationship? I'm not saying that the word marriage makes things perfect, but because marriage is about making a vow before GOD and man, it would seem to be the crescendo of a desire to honor and cherish a spouse. I know that it was an awesome opportunity to glorify GOD in our ceremony, and people that would never go to church came and heard the gospel presented clearly. We also showed the connection between marriage and the gospel. Others have already pointed to the reality of the marriage supper of the LAMB.
It would also be strange to me because of the damage that could be done to other people that either are not believers or are young believers. Marriage is saying that i promise forever. It is done before people just as other major promises are done. It would seem confusing to them if we're not willing to make our vital commitments public.
With that being said, there may be times when it is not good to pursue the official ceremony, but they are probably few. I always think of Braveheart where the government was forcing new wives to sleep with the English lords, so Wallace and his wife-to-be got married in secret, but they did still find a recognized church leader to preside over the ceremony. They were married "before" GOD even though their marriage was not recognized by the state.
I also think that you can make a pretty strong Biblical case for the need to be married according to what is recognized in the culture. We've already talked about the marriage supper picture. There are the passages where JESUS talks about marriage, but i think about the ones in the OT that had to do with men forcing themselves onto women. They were then expected to follow through. Now that may sound like sex makes one married, and in a way it does, but the way it's presented, it was not thought of as an acceptable way to initiate marriage.
Quickly - to answer the subquestion about being involved with an unbeliever, the passage in Corinthians about being unequally yoked seems clear to me. You can also look at the life of Solomon and see the destruction that occurred because of his marrying women that worshiped other gods. I know in my own marriage that the need for similar values and worldviews is crucial. Something as important as marriage is not the time to be trying to do evangelism if at all possible.
To conclude, I think my question turns back to, "why?" It seems to me that there may be bigger issues going on in this situation. I know the ease at which i can blind myself to justifying my own sin. So i seek to wait for more information.

I work for the devil he says every one be hapy and live the way you want,and he owes me 3 bucks!

Grimtruth wrote:I work for the devil he says every one be hapy and live the way you want,and he owes me 3 bucks!

Well, "if you can live the way you want," i doubt you're going to get your 3 bucks back. LOL

Hmmm. I think the idea that culture decides tradition isn't necessarily a good thing. There are tons of inhumane cultures out there including ours. Captain, I like the fact that you regard ambiguity and complication as a difficult lot to sort when dealing with real life human situations. Things truly aren't always black and white.

Cure, I'm curious, are you with a girl you love and is she in love with you but reluctant to marry (or possibly both)? And, are you concerned that God is withholding His favor and blessing from you because you are in an intimate relationship with a possible nonbeliever? If you feel these questions are too personal I won't be offended if you choose not to answer them.

It seems to me that sex is THE ceremony, but people have disregarded it and dumbed it down to an insigificant pleasurable act (or even a crude joke) so that it is no longer recognized as the amazing symbolic and sacred act which God intended it to be from the beginning. I realize that a public ceremony is important for encouragement and accountability, though I also know that there is nothing withheld from the Witness of heaven and that God recognizes a covenant regardless if it is not made public initially. I mean think about it...kinda like what Parable was saying, sex IS the act that binds and through this binding act new life is birthed into our crazy world. What is this new life but an actual living symbol of the unifying and binding act performed by the biological parents. If people could see the significance and sacredness of sex, then this world would undergo a radical change. It would certainly put a damper on the porn industry!!! Having sex is not the same thing as eating a turkey sandwhich (as some would like to think). It's not an appetite we appease in the same sense as hunger and thrist. There is a mingling and joining of body, soul and spirit and it is far deeper an experience than eating and drinking.

Captain, I hear what you're saying about values and the equally yolked thing. At the same time, I don't think that just because a married couple happens to be christian that their marriage will automatically be a success. The divorce rate among the christian community is just as high as that of the surrounding nonchristian culture in which they live (at least in America). I sincerely believe that it is possible for a believer to be married to a nonbeliever and have a relationship which is successful and glorifies God, else Paul would never have admonished believers to remain with their unbelieving spouses if their spouses so desired(1 Corithinans 7).

Bring on the Pain wrote:

Captain, I hear what you're saying about values and the equally yolked thing. At the same time, I don't think that just because a married couple happens to be christian that their marriage will automatically be a success. The divorce rate among the christian community is just as high as that of the surrounding nonchristian culture in which they live (at least in America). I sincerely believe that it is possible for a believer to be married to a nonbeliever and have a relationship which is successful and glorifies God, else Paul would never have admonished believers to remain with their unbelieving spouses if their spouses so desired(1 Corithinans 7).

I agree, and the key is that i didn't say that a marriage will be a success if they are both CHRISTians. I really more implied that it's hard for a marriage to be a success if they are not both believers. Paul did address the issue, but i think it was primarily for those that were married as unbelievers, but then one became a believer. I totally agree that if you're a CHRISTian and realize that you are married to a non-CHRISTian, you should not leave the marriage for that reason, but i think Paul is saying, "don't start a marriage if you know that your spouse is not a believer." It's hard enough being married without the extra tension created by such a major issue. I agree that GOD can be glorified greatly in a 'split' marriage by the believer serving the unbeliever and loving him/her unconditionally even though the love is not returned in the same capacity.
I do think that part of the reason why the divorce rate is so high in the CHRISTian community has to do more with the reality that many people claim to know CHRIST, but don't. However, to be fair, there are people that both seem to love the LORD, yet get divorced. It's one of the saddest things in the world to me.

I agree it is very sad It is true that Paul was refering to preexisting marriages (1 Corinthians 7). To add, if ever a widow was to remarry, Paul advises emphatically to marry "in the Lord" (Romans 7:2). I guess I was trying to point out God's ability to still glorify His name even in the midst of a so called "unequally yolked" relationship or bad choices on the part of His people.

Correct me if I am wrong, but according to what you wrote Captain, would it be fair to say that in God's economy we are unable to make mistakes sense we are perfect (righteous, holy, purified, justified) by virtue of our faith in Christ? Would it be accurate to say that He takes it upon Himself after the fact to work ALL things for good for those who love Him, for those who are called according to His purposes? I'm not making concessions for people to go around sinning (Romans 6) as it is written, Every man will reap according to what he has sown. If he sows to the flesh, he will reap corruption. If he sows to the spirit, he will reap "ZOE", or abundant life in the most rewarding sense (Galations 6). What I am saying is that I believe God is at work in the lives of His children more so than we realize and there really is nothing we can do to forfiet the purposes which God through the Holy Spirit has created each one of us to fulfill. For He who began a good work in us will also bring it to completion on the day of Christ Jesus.(Philippians 1:10)

Bring on the Pain wrote:I agree it is very sad It is true that Paul was refering to preexisting marriages (1 Corinthians 7). To add, if ever a widow was to remarry, Paul advises emphatically to marry "in the Lord" (Romans 7:2). I guess I was trying to point out God's ability to still glorify His name even in the midst of a so called "unequally yolked" relationship or bad choices on the part of His people.

Correct me if I am wrong, but according to what you wrote Captain, would it be fair to say that in God's economy we are unable to make mistakes sense we are perfect (righteous, holy, purified, justified) by virtue of our faith in Christ? Would it be accurate to say that He takes it upon Himself after the fact to work ALL things for good for those who love Him, for those who are called according to His purposes? I'm not making concessions for people to go around sinning (Romans 6) as it is written, Every man will reap according to what he has sown. If he sows to the flesh, he will reap corruption. If he sows to the spirit, he will reap "ZOE", or abundant life in the most rewarding sense (Galations 6). What I am saying is that I believe God is at work in the lives of His children more so than we realize and there really is nothing we can do to forfiet the purposes which God through the Holy Spirit has created each one of us to fulfill. For He who began a good work in us will also bring it to completion on the day of Christ Jesus.(Philippians 1:10)

I might qualify the word "mistake." In a sense, we can make mistakes because there is still a revealed will of GOD. Yet, you are right that we are still righteous before GOD in the sense that CHRIST has died to take the punishment that comes because of sin. CHRIST's death doesn't necessarily wipe away all the consequences, so there are 'mistakes,' but i also agree that GOD works everything out according to HIS glory for our good. Our good might mean though receiving discipline for doing something that we shouldn't have done. Discipline is for the purpose of producing repentance.
I once heard it said this way, GOD knows all contingencies but not contingently. If we make a mistake, GOD works for good by bringing about discipline and/or consequences that will lead us to learn from the mistake and/or repent of the sin. If we make a good decision (and avoid the mistake,) then GOD works for good by bringing about whatever positive consequences follow from our obedience.
It is still imperative that we obey, but it's nice to know that our disobedience does not 'destroy' our lives in the sense that we are removed from GOD's family. Our status as HIS children is secure even if our actions bring about suffering, etc.

Cure??? You getting all this dude? You opened up a can of worms bro

Question for you Captain: Is it the Lord's will that His children should suffer? I guess I always understood the Lord's prayer to mean that His desire is that "His will be done on earth JUST AS IT IS in heaven." If this is true, would be safe to say, pray, believe, that it is ALWAYS God's will for us to be free from sickness, debt/poverty, painful physical afflictions, depression, etc...? I don't think any of these undesireables are going on in heaven...

And if God is able (which He is) to deliver us from all such undesireables, then why is His will not being manifest in the lives of His loved ones when they cry out for help? I'm all for building character, but sometimes it seems that we are tempted or tried beyond what we are able to handle. Like with depression for instance, which greatly plagues our country and world, I know for a fact depression isn't always just a temporary mood swing. It can be a killer driving some people to take their very own lives... Even if God gave them a way out, it doesn't seem like it when they are so hopeless and unable to see it, or else they would have chosen life instead of death.

Looks like you kiddos are having a nice little discussion here. I like the candour and honesty, I must say. You know, it seems to me that if the Lord is the same God now than what He was in the OT times, then we should expect Him to be the selfsame God. If His blessings were conditional then, they are certain to be conditional now. It only makes sense.

I realize that Christ came to pay the spiritual consequences for our offenses toward God. With every action there is an opposite and equal reaction and what was required for our murders, fornications, adulturies, lies, contempt, theivery, hatred, and lack of gratitude was an opposite and equal reaction. None of us could have handled that kind of karma, so God had to step in in the form of a Man to make restitution.

All this said, it stands as well that the gift of eternal life is conditional. It is contingent upon our response to God's invitation to receive the gift He has given. There is a lot of debate about how people are awakened in their hearts to having an awareness of God's precious gift in Christ, and right now I want to put that on hold. The fact of the matter is, something had to be done in order for us to receive that gift, therefore it is conditional.

I think the best thing we as Christians could do for ourselves is find out what the will of the Lord is, and then do it. We must remember first that His love and acceptance of us isn't dependent upon our ability to produce good works, but His blessings and eternal rewards are.

What is His will concerning how we should conduct ourselves sexually?

What is His will regarding our marriages?

What is His will regarding our daily work?

What is His will in how we should handle our money?

What is His will in how we should interact in a community or society?

"Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is." - Ephesians 5:17

I believe the Lord wants us to discover His will through the written inspired scriptures. I also believe that if the Spirit lives inside you, then He will also reveal His will.

Jesus said, ‘When he, 'the Spirit of truth' has come, he will guide you into all truth’ (John 16:13).

Personally, I often times have difficulty knowing when the Holy Spirit is leading me into one thing or another unless He comes right out and slaps me in the face and says "WAKE UP!" Otherwise, I'm at a point where my awareness of His presence and guidance is still under developed.

In the end, we should do the very best we can to follow what we know for sure to be right and good and if we aren't sure about something, then it's probably best not to do what we aren't sure about. In the event that we screw up, God has made eternal provision and offers unending forgiveness which should be consolation in of itself.

Romans 14:23b For whatever is not of faith is sin. (Paraphrased: If you aren't sure if something is ok or not to do, don't go and do it anyway.)

Lastly, if our motivation is from any other place than to serve the Lord with a heart of love and gratitude, then I think the Lord would have us to investigate our motives. I don't think we will be rewarded or blessed if we are attempting to build our own kingdoms in the name of "The Kingdom of God".

Bring on the Pain wrote:Cure??? You getting all this dude? You opened up a can of worms bro

Question for you Captain: Is it the Lord's will that His children should suffer? I guess I always understood the Lord's prayer to mean that His desire is that "His will be done on earth JUST AS IT IS in heaven." If this is true, would be safe to say, pray, believe, that it is ALWAYS God's will for us to be free from sickness, debt/poverty, painful physical afflictions, depression, etc...? I don't think any of these undesireables are going on in heaven...

And if God is able (which He is) to deliver us from all such undesireables, then why is His will not being manifest in the lives of His loved ones when they cry out for help? I'm all for building character, but sometimes it seems that we are tempted or tried beyond what we are able to handle. Like with depression for instance, which greatly plagues our country and world, I know for a fact depression isn't always just a temporary mood swing. It can be a killer driving some people to take their very own lives... Even if God gave them a way out, it doesn't seem like it when they are so hopeless and unable to see it, or else they would have chosen life instead of death.

BotP - I'm going to copy this and start a new topic since i think it moves a little bit away from the original set of questions. I love discussing this stuff, and i'm hoping Cure will post some more on the current thread related to the 'why's' regarding his question.

Synapse wrote:Looks like you kiddos are having a nice little discussion here. I like the candour and honesty, I must say. You know, it seems to me that if the Lord is the same God now than what He was in the OT times, then we should expect Him to be the selfsame God. If His blessings were conditional then, they are certain to be conditional now. It only makes sense.

I realize that Christ came to pay the spiritual consequences for our offenses toward God. With every action there is an opposite and equal reaction and what was required for our murders, fornications, adulturies, lies, contempt, theivery, hatred, and lack of gratitude was an opposite and equal reaction. None of us could have handled that kind of karma, so God had to step in in the form of a Man to make restitution.

All this said, it stands as well that the gift of eternal life is conditional. It is contingent upon our response to God's invitation to receive the gift He has given. There is a lot of debate about how people are awakened in their hearts to having an awareness of God's precious gift in Christ, and right now I want to put that on hold. The fact of the matter is, something had to be done in order for us to receive that gift, therefore it is conditional.

I think the best thing we as Christians could do for ourselves is find out what the will of the Lord is, and then do it. We must remember first that His love and acceptance of us isn't dependent upon our ability to produce good works, but His blessings and eternal rewards are.

What is His will concerning how we should conduct ourselves sexually?

What is His will regarding our marriages?

What is His will regarding our daily work?

What is His will in how we should handle our money?

What is His will in how we should interact in a community or society?

"Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is." - Ephesians 5:17

I believe the Lord wants us to discover His will through the written inspired scriptures. I also believe that if the Spirit lives inside you, then He will also reveal His will.

Jesus said, ‘When he, 'the Spirit of truth' has come, he will guide you into all truth’ (John 16:13).

Personally, I often times have difficulty knowing when the Holy Spirit is leading me into one thing or another unless He comes right out and slaps me in the face and says "WAKE UP!" Otherwise, I'm at a point where my awareness of His presence and guidance is still under developed.

In the end, we should do the very best we can to follow what we know for sure to be right and good and if we aren't sure about something, then it's probably best not to do what we aren't sure about. In the event that we screw up, God has made eternal provision and offers unending forgiveness which should be consolation in of itself.

Romans 14:23b For whatever is not of faith is sin. (Paraphrased: If you aren't sure if something is ok or not to do, don't go and do it anyway.)

Lastly, if our motivation is from any other place than to serve the Lord with a heart of love and gratitude, then I think the Lord would have us to investigate our motives. I don't think we will be rewarded or blessed if we are attempting to build our own kingdoms in the name of "The Kingdom of God".

Synapse, i would agree that it's the same GOD, but i would probably disagree with the idea that 'his blessings were conditional then.' I do see some things in the OT that demonstrate something that would look conditional, but i would probably like to suggest that there is the potential to confuse blessings for his children and blessing for a nation. I think GOD's blessings were just as unconditional for those individuals that put their faith in HIM in the OT as they are in the New. I think the conditional part that you see in the OT like in Deuteronomy has to do with the nation as a whole. Because nations are not really eternal (there is a 'spiritual Israel,' there may be some different criteria involved.

I do understand the point of what you are saying though. I think that it is good advice to seek to do what we know is true based on HIS Word. It is easy to spend tons of time 'discussing' the Bible and never applying it. I remember hearing the story of an old pastor that was talking to a sceptic. The sceptic said something like, "I don't believe the Bible because there are some things that don't make sense." The old pastor said something like, "Instead of getting all choked on the bones, maybe we should try focusing on the meat." The point is, there are tons of things that we can understand and do.

The verse about everything that is not of faith is sin is something that has been very important to me and my wife. I realized a long time ago that every decision we make has to be dictated by our faith in GOD. For example, some people say that "modern medicine is wrong, and that we should trust GOD." They are assuming that those things are mutually exclusive, but they are not. We should trust GOD to use doctors and medicine. If we just trust doctors (which is the temptation many of us face,) then we can be just as wrong in our thinking as those that refuse to use medicine. We have to trust GOD. HE may choose to use a doctor. HE may not. Whichever way it goes, we have to trust GOD. We have to have faith. Trusting the doctor (instead of GOD) is not really of faith, and is therefore sin.

Wow! Everyone has been so gracious. I had no idea I would get this kind of feed back from my question. Sorry I haven't had a chance to get on till now. My weeks have been pretty busy.

Thank you so much for your imput. I guess I just want to know in what context is sex ok in the eyes of God and if we can do things or make choices after we have come to faith in Christ which will hinder us from being blessed by God. I want to hear His voice and be led by His Spirit and I don't want to become hard hearted or stiff necked when it comes to observing His will in my life.

I'm going to reread what everyone has written and give some time to let it all sink in. Be blessed brothers!